People Who Read People: A Behavior Podcast

He made a poker-tells-reading AI: How does it work? | with Luke Geel

503 views · 4d ago · 1:06:22

Guest: Luke Geel

Can artificial intelligence learn to read poker tells and figure out when someone is bluffing? AI engineer Luke Geel created software designed to do just that, and his work was featured this year on the TV coverage of the World Series of Poker Main Event. I'm the author of some poker tells books and when I first heard about this program, I wondered: what exactly is his program doing? And how well does it work?

Why did the "Lie Guy" walk away from reading nonverbal behavior in policing? | Stan Walters

2.5K views · 2w ago · 56:54

Guest: Stan Walters

He wrote a book about reading nonverbal behavior in police interrogations—but over time he came to see that as unreasonable, and now he focuses on what people say. A talk with Stan Walters, who goes by the “Lie Guy.” For show transcript, clarifications, and notes, see

📖 Mentioned book: Principles of Kinesic Interview and Interrogation

Reading slot machine tells: A talk with pro casino "advantage player" Chris Huang

1.1K views · 3w ago · 53:36

For full episode details, see How does someone make a living playing slot machines—and why would casinos let them? After joining professional gambler Chris Huang on a casino trip in Atlantic City, I talk with him about the unusual career of casino “advantage play” and how pro slot machine players capture the money left behind by other, less knowledgeable players.

NYC private investigator reveals tips on manipulating people and eliciting info

2K views · 1mo ago · 1:06:09

Guest: Andrew Thompson

For podcast episode details, a transcript, and more, see A talk with Andrew Thompson, a New York City-area private investigator and a researcher of criminal behavior and interrogation techniques. Andrew shares how he gets people talking while lacking the authority and command of a police badge, and what studying FBI crime cases and interrogations taught him about linguistic clues to deception in people’s stories.

She’s certified by Joe Navarro in body language: What has she learned?

3.3K views · 1mo ago · 44:11

Guest: Gallia Winkler

For podcast details and a transcript, see On this podcast, I sometimes explore nuance in the “behavior expert” domain. For this reason, I’m curious about what value people say that they’ve received from “behavior expert” trainings and certifications. This is a talk with Gallia Winkler, a psychological coach and a behavioral student of Joe Navarro’s; she’s been certified in his Body Language Expert Program.

Are all “body language experts” scamming us? Critiques of Joe Navarro, Paul Ekman, Chase Hughes

18K views · 1mo ago · 1:54:11

For episode details, links, and a transcript, see This is the second part of a talk with former CIA officer Kent Clizbe about the exaggerated, irresponsible claims made by many self-described “behavior experts,” focusing especially on Paul Ekman, Joe Navarro, microexpressions, and attempts to detect deception from body language.

PSY-OP soldier on Chase Hughes’ claims #psyop #falseflag

1.2K views · 2mo ago · 3:00

Psy-Op soldier on secret influence operations, myths, blowback, the Chase Hughes fraud, and more

3.1K views · 2mo ago · 1:28:43

A talk with an Army Psychological Operations soldier about what military psy-op work really involves—and how different the reality is from many people's ideas about the nature of that work.

Poker footage auto-logging app demo: Detecting player names, board cards, and more in game video

268 views · 2mo ago · 5:00

I sometimes do poker tells consulting. For example, I've done three gigs consulting for World Series of Poker Main Event final table players, and a few other consulting jobs for high-stakes players. (For more detail about that work, see This work usually involves scrubbing through a lot of poker footage, looking for specific players and interesting spots. I've been wanting to create a program to help me automatically parse and log videos for a while, before AI arrived.

Can AI detect lies in language better than humans? with researcher Bennett Kleinberg

881 views · 2mo ago · 1:00:03

For episode details and a transcript, see Can machine learning and artificial intelligence spot lies better than humans can? I talk with psychology researcher Bennett Kleinberg, whose work brings together psychology, machine learning, natural-language processing, and deception detection. We explore why humans are bad at identifying lies, which verbal clues may reveal deception—and why indicators of anxiety are bad clues (especially in anxiety-producing situations).

What does the Scientology e-meter do? Behind the scenes of a Scientology audit, with Chris Shelton

4K views · 3mo ago · 1:23:36

Guest: Chris Shelton

He scored 100% in a deception detection study: a talk with Pete Blair

4.4K views · 3mo ago · 1:03:57

Guest: Pete Blair

For episode details and a transcript, see In a 2014 deception detection study, Pete Blair made 33 judgments—and got all 33 right. That paper was titled “Expertise in deception detection involves actively prompting diagnostic information rather than passive behavioral observation.” I ask Pete about what the factors were in him getting 100% accuracy in that study, and we talk about the interplay between verbal and nonverbal behavior.

The Chase Hughes scam: She spent $50,000 on fake “therapy”—and got it all back!

48K views · 3mo ago · 15:36

SAY THANKS I spend a good amount of time on independent journalism (including some analysis of deceptive online activity like this) but make very little money on it. If you'd like to send me a thank you, and encourage me to do more work on such fronts, donations are appreciated

Behaviorally, games are different from interrogations and other non-game situations

415 views · 3mo ago · 49:33

Zach Elwood, author of influential books on poker tells and host of the People Who Read People podcast, joins The Deductionist podcast ( for a wide-ranging conversation about what we can and can't learn from human behavior.

▶️ Mentioned videos: experts

Understanding defenses of the polygraph, with David Goldberg

499 views · 4mo ago · 1:19:51

Guest: David Goldberg

Polygraphs, AKA lie detectors, are a controversial tool in criminal investigations: critics argue they're too unreliable to trust, while proponents say that, even if they’re not perfect, they nonetheless can play a valuable role in helping uncover the truth.